Comments on: An Open Apology http://davidcrow.ca/article/1263/an-open-apology Commentary about high tech happenings in hogtown Tue, 15 May 2012 16:26:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: False Positives http://davidcrow.ca/article/1263/an-open-apology/comment-page-1#comment-791 False Positives Tue, 03 Oct 2006 12:59:23 +0000 http://blog.davidcrow.ca/?p=767#comment-791 <strong>Trackback from False Positives:</strong><br /><a href="http://www.falsepositives.com/index.php/2006/10/02/toronto-democamp-9-back-from-the-holidays/">Toronto DemoCamp 9 : back from the holidays</a><br /><br /> After a small pause, we have returned to another season of Demo Camps with Demo Camp Toronto o9, now on a Monday, and it's back at No Regrets, 42 Mowat Ave., Toronto, ON, one last time. DictaBrain - Rapid Voice to Text... Trackback from False Positives:
Toronto DemoCamp 9 : back from the holidays

After a small pause, we have returned to another season of Demo Camps with Demo Camp Toronto o9, now on a Monday, and it's back at No Regrets, 42 Mowat Ave., Toronto, ON, one last time.
DictaBrain – Rapid Voice to Text…

]]> By: False Positives http://davidcrow.ca/article/1263/an-open-apology/comment-page-1#comment-10056 False Positives Tue, 03 Oct 2006 05:59:00 +0000 http://blog.davidcrow.ca/?p=767#comment-10056 <strong>Trackback from False Positives:</strong><br /><a href="http://www.falsepositives.com/index.php/2006/10/02/toronto-democamp-9-back-from-the-holidays/" target="_blank">Toronto DemoCamp 9 : back from the holidays</a><br /><br /> After a small pause, we have returned to another season of Demo Camps with Demo Camp Toronto o9, now on a Monday, and it's back at No Regrets, 42 Mowat Ave., Toronto, ON, one last time.<br /> DictaBrain - Rapid Voice to Text... <strong>Trackback from False Positives:</strong><br /><a href="http://www.falsepositives.com/index.php/2006/10/02/toronto-democamp-9-back-from-the-holidays/&quot; target="_blank">Toronto DemoCamp 9 : back from the holidays</a><br /><br /> After a small pause, we have returned to another season of Demo Camps with Demo Camp Toronto o9, now on a Monday, and it's back at No Regrets, 42 Mowat Ave., Toronto, ON, one last time.<br />
DictaBrain – Rapid Voice to Text…

]]> By: Rohan Jayasekera http://davidcrow.ca/article/1263/an-open-apology/comment-page-1#comment-787 Rohan Jayasekera Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:53:01 +0000 http://blog.davidcrow.ca/?p=767#comment-787 <p>DemoCampToronto9 was at a bar, and began with a lot of kidding around among the organizers and people who knew them well. Such an atmosphere encourages the audience to feel unrestrained, and nobody should be surprised by the consequences.</p> <p>(And no, John, being near Parkdale had nothing to do with it. Internal factors only.)</p> <p>If the tone had been more 'professional', I doubt that you'd be apologizing for anything. And I personally would prefer it too. Lately DemoCamps have been appearing somewhat clubby to me (e.g. jokes thrown around that only insiders will get), something that I know isn't intended. The phrase 'open community' contains an inherent conflict and some care is needed to ensure that 'community' doesn't drown out 'open'.</p> DemoCampToronto9 was at a bar, and began with a lot of kidding around among the organizers and people who knew them well. Such an atmosphere encourages the audience to feel unrestrained, and nobody should be surprised by the consequences.

(And no, John, being near Parkdale had nothing to do with it. Internal factors only.)

If the tone had been more 'professional', I doubt that you'd be apologizing for anything. And I personally would prefer it too. Lately DemoCamps have been appearing somewhat clubby to me (e.g. jokes thrown around that only insiders will get), something that I know isn't intended. The phrase 'open community' contains an inherent conflict and some care is needed to ensure that 'community' doesn't drown out 'open'.

]]> By: Rohan Jayasekera http://davidcrow.ca/article/1263/an-open-apology/comment-page-1#comment-10057 Rohan Jayasekera Fri, 29 Sep 2006 02:53:00 +0000 http://blog.davidcrow.ca/?p=767#comment-10057 <p>DemoCampToronto9 was at a bar, and began with a lot of kidding around among the organizers and people who knew them well. Such an atmosphere encourages the audience to feel unrestrained, and nobody should be surprised by the consequences.</p><br /> <br /> <p>(And no, John, being near Parkdale had nothing to do with it. Internal factors only.)</p><br /> <br /> <p>If the tone had been more 'professional', I doubt that you'd be apologizing for anything. And I personally would prefer it too. Lately DemoCamps have been appearing somewhat clubby to me (e.g. jokes thrown around that only insiders will get), something that I know isn't intended. The phrase 'open community' contains an inherent conflict and some care is needed to ensure that 'community' doesn't drown out 'open'.</p> <p>DemoCampToronto9 was at a bar, and began with a lot of kidding around among the organizers and people who knew them well. Such an atmosphere encourages the audience to feel unrestrained, and nobody should be surprised by the consequences.</p><br />
<br />
<p>(And no, John, being near Parkdale had nothing to do with it. Internal factors only.)</p><br />
<br />
<p>If the tone had been more 'professional', I doubt that you'd be apologizing for anything. And I personally would prefer it too. Lately DemoCamps have been appearing somewhat clubby to me (e.g. jokes thrown around that only insiders will get), something that I know isn't intended. The phrase 'open community' contains an inherent conflict and some care is needed to ensure that 'community' doesn't drown out 'open'.</p>

]]> By: varun mathur http://davidcrow.ca/article/1263/an-open-apology/comment-page-1#comment-786 varun mathur Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:06:50 +0000 http://blog.davidcrow.ca/?p=767#comment-786 <p>It doesn't make sense for you to apologize. The above picture might have been offensive to some, while the comments made about it offended someone else, while the laughter about it offended someone else. Personally, I felt offended when a few DemoCamps ago I saw a really crappy demo by someone showcasing a really big IT company's really crappy product & it made no sense whatsoever.</p> <p>With DemoCamp's very open and fluid community and with people not knowing each other that much, there is not enough peer pressure perhaps, so it would be hard to outright prevent such incidents in the future. And I agree with John above that the setting is a strong influence on how people behave. At UofT's geekland (Bahen Centre) or even at MaRS, such incidents are quite unlikely to happen (I have never witnessed one in the past few years.geeks tend to respect geeks).</p> <p>About the makeup of the community.who cares ! I can be termed a 'visible minority' since I am originally from India, but the only things I care about at DemoCamp are the demos and an opportunity to meet some fellow geeks. It won't make an iota of difference to me whether the room is full of white, brown, blue, purple, etc people or what their dress style is or other aspects of their personal life & I don't give a damn about all that. Also, on the flip side, the 'makeup' of the computer science and engineering student community at UofT is predominantly of asian, south asian and east european origin, and I'll estimate about 10% students are 'white'. Maybe 20-30% students are female. I haven't heard anyone talking about including more 'white' students.</p> <p>So, basically, it boils down to: people will do what they want to do, and it is hard and not useful to try to shape communities.it is sufficient for the community to be open and it can then evolve by itself.no need to feel bad about the decisions other people make for themselves'.</p> It doesn't make sense for you to apologize. The above picture might have been offensive to some, while the comments made about it offended someone else, while the laughter about it offended someone else. Personally, I felt offended when a few DemoCamps ago I saw a really crappy demo by someone showcasing a really big IT company's really crappy product & it made no sense whatsoever.

With DemoCamp's very open and fluid community and with people not knowing each other that much, there is not enough peer pressure perhaps, so it would be hard to outright prevent such incidents in the future. And I agree with John above that the setting is a strong influence on how people behave. At UofT's geekland (Bahen Centre) or even at MaRS, such incidents are quite unlikely to happen (I have never witnessed one in the past few years.geeks tend to respect geeks).

About the makeup of the community.who cares ! I can be termed a 'visible minority' since I am originally from India, but the only things I care about at DemoCamp are the demos and an opportunity to meet some fellow geeks. It won't make an iota of difference to me whether the room is full of white, brown, blue, purple, etc people or what their dress style is or other aspects of their personal life & I don't give a damn about all that. Also, on the flip side, the 'makeup' of the computer science and engineering student community at UofT is predominantly of asian, south asian and east european origin, and I'll estimate about 10% students are 'white'. Maybe 20-30% students are female. I haven't heard anyone talking about including more 'white' students.

So, basically, it boils down to: people will do what they want to do, and it is hard and not useful to try to shape communities.it is sufficient for the community to be open and it can then evolve by itself.no need to feel bad about the decisions other people make for themselves'.

]]> By: scott brooks http://davidcrow.ca/article/1263/an-open-apology/comment-page-1#comment-784 scott brooks Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:54:13 +0000 http://blog.davidcrow.ca/?p=767#comment-784 <p>Certainly a funny twist. I guess my mothers advice of 'never say anything you wouldn't want printed in the paper tomorrow' is quite good actually. </p> <p>huge kudos for Dave on another great event! </p> <p>looking forward to the next one. </p> <p>Cheers </p> <p>Scott</p> Certainly a funny twist. I guess my mothers advice of 'never say anything you wouldn't want printed in the paper tomorrow' is quite good actually.

huge kudos for Dave on another great event!

looking forward to the next one.

Cheers

Scott

]]> By: Watts http://davidcrow.ca/article/1263/an-open-apology/comment-page-1#comment-783 Watts Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:06:00 +0000 http://blog.davidcrow.ca/?p=767#comment-783 <p>White, female, alien & whatever. I just want to see some kick ass demos.</p> White, female, alien & whatever. I just want to see some kick ass demos.

]]> By: Hampton http://davidcrow.ca/article/1263/an-open-apology/comment-page-1#comment-782 Hampton Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:10:57 +0000 http://blog.davidcrow.ca/?p=767#comment-782 <p>I just think if there is a solution to getting more women and ethnic minorities (and even more gays) then its by building up positively than by being offended on their behalf for things.</p> <p>Furthermore, I don't think its an unwelcoming environment. I don't think any of the guys there wouldn't be thrilled to have a more diverse crowd. But, in the end, should we feel bad for showing up and being male? Should less males show up to make it 50/50?</p> <p>Of course not!</p> <p>I think we should seek out more diverse presenters, because they are out there. We make this place diverse by being pro-active, not by being offended.</p> <p>Oh, and I outed myself a long time ago. the blog was just to maybe get me laid!</p> I just think if there is a solution to getting more women and ethnic minorities (and even more gays) then its by building up positively than by being offended on their behalf for things.

Furthermore, I don't think its an unwelcoming environment. I don't think any of the guys there wouldn't be thrilled to have a more diverse crowd. But, in the end, should we feel bad for showing up and being male? Should less males show up to make it 50/50?

Of course not!

I think we should seek out more diverse presenters, because they are out there. We make this place diverse by being pro-active, not by being offended.

Oh, and I outed myself a long time ago. the blog was just to maybe get me laid!

]]> By: varun mathur http://davidcrow.ca/article/1263/an-open-apology/comment-page-1#comment-10058 varun mathur Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:06:00 +0000 http://blog.davidcrow.ca/?p=767#comment-10058 <p>It doesn't make sense for you to apologize. The above picture might have been offensive to some, while the comments made about it offended someone else, while the laughter about it offended someone else. Personally, I felt offended when a few DemoCamps ago I saw a really crappy demo by someone showcasing a really big IT company's really crappy product & it made no sense whatsoever.</p><br /> <br /> <p>With DemoCamp's very open and fluid community and with people not knowing each other that much, there is not enough peer pressure perhaps, so it would be hard to outright prevent such incidents in the future. And I agree with John above that the setting is a strong influence on how people behave. At UofT's geekland (Bahen Centre) or even at MaRS, such incidents are quite unlikely to happen (I have never witnessed one in the past few years.geeks tend to respect geeks).</p><br /> <br /> <p>About the makeup of the community.who cares ! I can be termed a 'visible minority' since I am originally from India, but the only things I care about at DemoCamp are the demos and an opportunity to meet some fellow geeks. It won't make an iota of difference to me whether the room is full of white, brown, blue, purple, etc people or what their dress style is or other aspects of their personal life & I don't give a damn about all that. Also, on the flip side, the 'makeup' of the computer science and engineering student community at UofT is predominantly of asian, south asian and east european origin, and I'll estimate about 10% students are 'white'. Maybe 20-30% students are female. I haven't heard anyone talking about including more 'white' students.</p><br /> <br /> <p>So, basically, it boils down to: people will do what they want to do, and it is hard and not useful to try to shape communities.it is sufficient for the community to be open and it can then evolve by itself.no need to feel bad about the decisions other people make for themselves'.</p> <p>It doesn't make sense for you to apologize. The above picture might have been offensive to some, while the comments made about it offended someone else, while the laughter about it offended someone else. Personally, I felt offended when a few DemoCamps ago I saw a really crappy demo by someone showcasing a really big IT company's really crappy product & it made no sense whatsoever.</p><br />
<br />
<p>With DemoCamp's very open and fluid community and with people not knowing each other that much, there is not enough peer pressure perhaps, so it would be hard to outright prevent such incidents in the future. And I agree with John above that the setting is a strong influence on how people behave. At UofT's geekland (Bahen Centre) or even at MaRS, such incidents are quite unlikely to happen (I have never witnessed one in the past few years.geeks tend to respect geeks).</p><br />
<br />
<p>About the makeup of the community.who cares ! I can be termed a 'visible minority' since I am originally from India, but the only things I care about at DemoCamp are the demos and an opportunity to meet some fellow geeks. It won't make an iota of difference to me whether the room is full of white, brown, blue, purple, etc people or what their dress style is or other aspects of their personal life & I don't give a damn about all that. Also, on the flip side, the 'makeup' of the computer science and engineering student community at UofT is predominantly of asian, south asian and east european origin, and I'll estimate about 10% students are 'white'. Maybe 20-30% students are female. I haven't heard anyone talking about including more 'white' students.</p><br />
<br />
<p>So, basically, it boils down to: people will do what they want to do, and it is hard and not useful to try to shape communities.it is sufficient for the community to be open and it can then evolve by itself.no need to feel bad about the decisions other people make for themselves'.</p>

]]> By: scott brooks http://davidcrow.ca/article/1263/an-open-apology/comment-page-1#comment-10059 scott brooks Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:54:00 +0000 http://blog.davidcrow.ca/?p=767#comment-10059 <p>Certainly a funny twist. I guess my mothers advice of 'never say anything you wouldn't want printed in the paper tomorrow' is quite good actually. </p><br /> <br /> <p>huge kudos for Dave on another great event! </p><br /> <br /> <p>looking forward to the next one. </p><br /> <br /> <p>Cheers </p><br /> <br /> <p>Scott</p> <p>Certainly a funny twist. I guess my mothers advice of 'never say anything you wouldn't want printed in the paper tomorrow' is quite good actually. </p><br />
<br />
<p>huge kudos for Dave on another great event! </p><br />
<br />
<p>looking forward to the next one. </p><br />
<br />
<p>Cheers </p><br />
<br />
<p>Scott</p>

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